Nephi Prophey pt. 2 “They Have All Gone Astray, Save it be a Few”

Nephi Prophecy pt. 2 “They Have All Gone Astray, Save it be a Few”

The following chapter in 2nd Nephi is heartbreaking when read under its proper circumstance. Chapter 28 is not talking about the great apostasy; it’s talking about the only true and living church in a state of darkness and obscurity.

Chapter 26 has identified the characteristics of apostate Christendom. Not surprisingly, the true and living church will take on many of the same traits in chapter 28. This is because the stumbling block of the Gentiles of the first watch that leads to their fall was not removed in the second watch. The Saints of the restoration were just as liable to stumble, and thus they have.

26: 20 And the Gentiles are lifted up in the pride of their eyes, and have stumbled, because of the greatness of their stumbling block…

The stumbling block was revealed in 1st Nephi 13:

29 … because of the many plain and precious things which have been taken out of the book, which were plain unto the understanding of the children of men, according to the plainness which is in the Lamb of God–because of these things which are taken away out of the gospel of the Lamb, an exceedingly great many do stumble, yea, insomuch that Satan hath great power over them.

The corrupt Bible is the stumbling block. The Saints of the restoration were commanded in section 124 to, “publish the new translation of my holy word unto the inhabitants of the earth,” which Joseph Smith had dutifully translated back in Kirtland.  In Nauvoo they had the opportunity to finally read and receive it, if only they made means for its publication, but they failed to make this a priority. Because of this, the Saints lost access to the inspired version of the Bible for nearly two generations, long enough to allow the church to become corrupted by false doctrines.

Even now, with access to the JST excerpts, we can’t be positive the writings were transmitted correctly. There’s a good chance that the RLDS has mucked around with it, and that important things were are again lost to the Saints.

The stumbling block of the Gentiles (and the Saints) will not be removed until the marvelous work and a wonder occurs. (1 Ne:13) This could have happened already, if the church had simply followed the commands of God in Nauvoo and ushered in the dispensation of the fulness of times. But sadly, the work was hindered. This is why the Saints end up just as bad as the Gentiles that came to America. This is why the LDS church today encounters the same problems as any protestant church.

(Note: The Bible is corrupted, but only in the sense that it is not complete. The King James translation by the grace of God works in perfect harmony with the Book of Mormon. (D&C 42:12) There are certain things that God, in his infinite wisdom, allowed to be removed. I would go as for to contend that the modern-day King James Bible does in fact contain EVERYTHING about the mysteries of God, but it’s all very subtle and cryptic. You have to read between the lines. When the fulness of scriptures are revealed, the mysteries of God will be out in the open, plain to the understanding of men.)

Returning to the chapter I want to explore, 2nd Nephi 28 verse 5 says that the priesthood leaders of the LDS church will say unto the people, “the Lord and the Redeemer hath done his work, and he hath given his power unto men.”

Of course this is what the LDS church says. They will never teach that the work of the Father is a future event. They think the restoration years of Joseph Smith is all there is to it, that the LDS church is the result. The brethren of the church erroneously teach that they are prophets and seers and revelators, and the House of Israel believes it, even though none of these men have ever had any of the revelatory fruits that accompany an actual prophet.

As important as it is to believe that God does in fact call people to lead and guide his church– and that the brethren of the LDS church truly have been called of God and appointed– the problem is that the Saints trust that “prophets, seers, and revelators” will never lead them astray.

The Saints believe that God has done his work, that the power of God has been given to men.

The LDS leaders are very sadly just like the protestant preachers of 2nd Nephi 26:

29 … men [that] preach and set themselves up for a light unto the world, that they may get gain and praise of the world; but they seek not the welfare of Zion.

As easy as it would be, I refuse to hide my disdain for the attitudes of the leaders of the corporate church. There are many wonderful general authorities, but they all fall perfectly into the description of this verse. They do not seek the welfare of Zion. They are perfectly happy with everything as it is.

This, is not okay. They need to repent.

The Mormons, just like every religion, have fallen into the same trap. They’ve put their trust in the arm of flesh instead of God. This happened gradually, and culminated up to the point in which the Saints chose Brigham Young to be be their leader over Sidney Rigdon.

Sidney had been called of God and ordained as a prophet, seer, and revelator. Brigham Young had only been given authority to publish the gospel. Had the Saints chose Sidney, that would have immediately ended polygamy and the masonic endowment from continuing on in the church. There would have been no racism introduced into the church, either.

Many things would be different had Brigham Young not taken the helm.

And although the leaders of the church have dramatically improved throughout the twentieth century, they still teach the relics of false doctrines that BY introduced, having no claim to be legitimate prophets, seers, and revelators. Brigham Young had no right to proclaim himself as such. No matter what the LDS manuals say, the twelve apostles had no right to reorganize the First Presidency when Joseph Smith died. The twelve apostles only had authority to do missionary work.

In the third watch, the First Presidency will be reorganized by angelic messengers who hold the Melchizedek priesthood. Because the church has the Aaronic priesthood, it holds the keys of the ministering of angels, which makes this possible. No one on earth can fix the situation we find ourselves in.

The only thing that can come to the Saints’ rescue is a divine intervention. The work of the Father.

Again, the church will never teach that there is another great work to come forth. Because what would that imply? It would make clear that something is currently wrong. This is why the church teaches that all is well in Zion, that everything is going according to God’s plan, that God will never allow the church to be led astray… which of course all goes completely against everything in God’s revealed word.

To relate a personal story, while I was serving my LDS mission, Quentin L. Cook came and spoke to us missionaries. At the end he opened up a Q&A. I took the opportunity to ask him whether or not he personally believed Joseph Smith would return back to the earth in the flesh to redeem Zion in Jackson County, Missouri.

He brushed the question off, even though he knew perfectly well what I was talking about. I’m certain he understands why Joseph is coming back, but what does it infer? The scenario does not fit the paradigm of what the GA’s teach. What’s to be redeemed when all is well in Zion, right?

Before moving on, I should not fail to mention, that after I had asked my question– and Elder Cook disappointingly answered it by saying that Zion’s Camp was not a failure because it allowed BY to prepare himself for leading the Saints heroically to Utah blah blah blah…– the Area Seventy up on the stand winked at me and smiled knowingly. I realized that day it was possible that he and many other GA’s have also awakened to a sense of our awful situation. They just don’t know what to do about it. Let’s just hope and pray for the many leaders of the LDS movement, that they too may be humble enough to receive the light when it shines forth for the last time.

There are many that are fully aware of all these things I’m talking about, but they are silent on these matters, waiting patiently for the greater light to be revealed. Keeping in mind the state of the entire world and the small portion of the Spirit we’re blessed enough to receive, it’s understandable why things have gone amuck. The world is under the control of Satan, and according to prophecy he will prevail, even against the Saints, until Adam returns. (Daniel 7:21-22)

Compared to what we’re dealing with in the church, the world is on an entirely different level. The sins that have infiltrated the LDS church are simply reflective of things happening in the world, at a small degree, more like clues to set alarms off in our minds. When we understand what’s happening in the church, our eyes will be opened to what is truly happening in the world around us.

There are false prophets on the earth that make Brigham Young look good. There are ideologies and philosophies that make section 132 seem harmless.

The secret combinations happening between corporations and politicians– satanic sex rituals and murdering for the purpose of gain– make LDS temples look like a neighborhood treehouse-fort where the password is “no girls allowed.”

I could go on, but I won’t.

False preachers, false doctrines, and false concepts of God, are universal in this day and age. “Every man walketh in his own way, and after the image of his own god.” (D&C 1:16)

In section 103, during the failed attempt to redeem Zion, the Saints are told that if they do not observe the commandments and hearken to observe all of God’s words, the kingdoms of the world (Satan’s army) will prevail against them. Had they hearkened, the promise was that the kingdoms would be subdued and the earth would be given to the Saints.

With the hindsight we now have, it’s obvious that the Saints did not observe all of God’s commandments, neither did they observe all of God’s words. The world has prevailed against the Saints for the last 180 years. Without ever having realized it, the church has been corrupted by the lies of Satan.

The majority of Christ’s covenant people see through it, but there is blindness over their eyes that stops them from seeking deeper. They know that polygamy is in-errantly evil, but could never come to terms with section 132 being a false revelation that Satan was able to entice the Saints into adopting.

If there’s a scripture I wish the Mormon world would take seriously, it’s this one:

14 … they have all gone astray save it be a few, who are the humble followers of Christ; nevertheless, they are led, that in many instances they do err because they are taught by the precepts of men.

This says it all. This is the purpose of this blog. This is what everyone needs to understand.

The world in a state of darkness and confusion, and not only that but even the humble followers of Christ are currently erring. As pure-hearted as they might be, not even they can entirely avoid the casualties of the war between good and evil, which is currently raging amongst us. This is consistent with the prophecy in Daniel 7 that explains that Satan will prevail against the Saints until Adam comes.

According to Joseph Smith, Adam holds the keys to the dispensation of the fulness of times. (TOTPJS p.167) Until the Ancient of Days returns back to the earth to deliver the keys for the final dispensation, the humble followers of Christ will continue to be deceived by the precepts of men.

According to this scripture, Thomas S. Monson is in the same boat as the rest of us. And even if he was a legitimately ordained prophet, seer, and revelator, his eyes would still be closed until the Sealed Portion came forward. Regardless to whether or not he does have priesthood authority, he cannot be a trusted mouthpiece for God. False traditions have been passed down to him that he is in no position to question. He could never step outside the box of what he’s been taught for 80+ years.

Just imagine if he got up one General Conference and revealed the truth that the endowment is just a bunch of hocus pocus that Joseph pulled out of his butt? The church would break out in mass hysteria. The church is in so far deep. There’s no easy way out. The church cannot self-correct itself. This is why the work of the Father is so important. It’s pivotal for the Saints to accept the modern-day apostasy and our own inability to discern truth.

Of course even I myself cannot be exempt from this scripture’s statement. There are false doctrines and false spirits following me around that I have zero power to shake off. This is the state in which we live. This is the period of darkness and apostasy that precedes the marvelous work and a wonder. Realizing the possibility that we may be deceived and accepting the fact that the church is in a state of darkness and obscurity, are important truths we need to digest in order to accept and heed the words of the final servants of God, who will have the power to bring again Zion. (D&C 113:7-8)

Unlike Monson, they will tell the Saints that the endowment is a counterfeit of the real deal. And if anyone is so naive as to think that their beliefs are 100% on track with God’s will– which is impossible according to 2nd Nephi 28:14–  they will never accept the work of the Father.

For example, if they think they are already living the fulness of the gospel, they will never understand why it’s necessary to live the law of consecration. And if they think an LDS temple is the most holy edifice on the planet, they will have no reason to go to Missouri and build a real temple where the Lord will actually reside.

One more thing to notice about that scripture is that it says that even though the humble followers of Christ are erring, what separates them from the rest of the world is that they have not “gone astray.” The humble followers of Christ are clearly the elect who will not be deceived by the false prophets in and outside of Christ’s church. The covenant people will fulfill their election when they get the formal invite to the feast of fat things at the New Jerusalem.

Which brings us to verse 15.

15 O the wise, and the learned, and the rich, that are puffed up in the pride of their hearts, and all those who preach false doctrines, and all those who commit whoredoms, and pervert the right way of the Lord…

And just exactly who are the wise, and the learned, and the rich? Through the lens of modern revelation we can discover their true identity.

D&C 58

8 And also that a feast of fat things might be prepared for the poor; yea, a feast of fat things, of wine on the lees well refined, that the earth may know that the mouths of the prophets shall not fail;

9 Yea, a supper of the house of the Lord, well prepared, unto which all nations shall be invited.

10 First, the rich and the learned, the wise and the noble;

11 And after that cometh the day of my power; then shall the poor, the lame, and the blind, and the deaf, come in unto the marriage of the Lamb, and partake of the supper of the Lord, prepared for the great day to come.

The rich and learned and wise that are puffed up in pride, preaching false doctrines and committing whoredoms, are the members of the LDS church. God teaches us this if we carefully study the Word. He uses specific words to relate to other passages of scripture. Only those with the spirit of prophecy will understand the connections. Only those that God wants to know these truths will see it. The children of darkness will never understand the scriptures, neither will they understand prophecy.

The LDS church will get the first call to go to the marriage supper, but according to Luke 14:18, they are too busy with their jobs and happy dappy lives to leave it all behind. Incredibly, the parable that Jesus gave about the marriage supper was talking about the LDS church! Luke 14:21 explains that because the Saints who got the formal invite are no-shows, this is why the Lord will then fill up the vacancies with the poor, lame and deaf.

The New Jerusalem will be built by the remnant of Jacob, the repentant Gentiles, and also “as many of the house of Israel as shall come.” (3rd Nephi 21:22)

This is the state of the true and living church. That’s as hopeful as things are for it according to scripture: As many as shall come. How’s that compared to how the GA’s describe the church in conference talks?

All Israel shall be saved, the scriptures so read. The House of Israel is saved through the Abrahamic covenant, but whether or not they will receive their celestial inheritance will be decided on whether or not they accept the fulness of the gospel and the true new and everlasting covenant.

Many will receive the Sealed Portion and uncorrupted Bible, while many will say “we have received [the Book of Mormon], and we need no more.” (2nd Nephi 28:27)

“A Bible! A Bible! We have got a Bible.”

The Lord is going to set his hand again the second time. Are you capable of receiving personal revelation? Will you have enough spiritual discernment to know whether or not the new scriptures presented to you are in fact God’s word?

Will you be deceived by false prophets?

Will you continue to worship the church whose leaders are prophets that “stay themselves,” and do not hear the voice of the Lord until the Savior comes (D&C 133:26) — proof that they will not be caught up in the cloud to receive celestial glory. Where do you want to be when Jesus comes?

Will you trust the leaders who will of course dissuade you from reading anything outside the LDS institution? Leaders who lie and say they will never lead you astray when they have preached false doctrine and committed whoredoms– the ones who will not accept the invitation to the marriage supper?

If you’ve put your trust in the arm of flesh, repent before it’s too late.

Trust God and the Word.


10 thoughts on “Nephi Prophey pt. 2 “They Have All Gone Astray, Save it be a Few””

  1. The available Inspired Version of the Bible (JST published by the Community of Christ) has been checked against the original source material used for the translation by scholars in the LDS church. They didn’t find any tampering. At this point, any problems with the translation are the result of well-intentioned editors trying to make judgement calls about what some of the corrections would look like in a finished form when they can’t ask the people who made the original notes. Some of the changes are punctuation, grammar, or clarification of who is referred to by pronouns. The major changes relate to understanding events of the last days and establishment of Zion. The people in Joseph’s day didn’t have it because they were concerned about other priorities. It is available today, but few people seem inclined to search if out and read it for themselves. Please don’t discourage anyone from their own study of Joseph’s corrections by saying “There’s a good chance that the RLDS has mucked around with it, and that important things were are again lost to the Saints.” This would be placing a stumbling block in the way of honest seekers of truth.


    1. RaNae,

      Thank you for commenting.

      I appreciate your love and respect for the JST. By no means did I intend to discourage anyone from reading it or from taking it seriously.

      I love that you use the phrase “stumbling block” in regards to it, because in 1 Nephi 13 we find that it is the corrupted Bible that is the stumbling block to the Gentiles. Only until the Marvelous Work recorded in 1 Nephi 14 is the stumbling block completely taken away in power.

      We are certainly lucky to have The Book of Moses, and JST footnotes, as well as the extended excerpts, but this was not done by priesthood messengers. Whether it be the LDS church with its ‘Pearl of Great Price’ or the RLDS publication of Joseph’s translation, neither group were commanded of God to do such.

      According to Section 124, the new translation of God’s word was complete, ready to be published. But the Saints did not repent and reform in Nauvoo, so the Marvelous Work was hindered, and the uncorrupted Bible remained unpublished. However, the current JST is no doubt of great worth and value!!


  2. G.azelem,

    This is because the stumbling block of the Gentiles of the first watch that leads to their fall was not removed in the second watch.

    Here it sounds like you’ve been reading One Who Is Watching’s blog…

    You wrote in the 5th paragraph:

    The stumbling block was revealed in 1st Nephi 13:

    You then proceeded to quote part of 1 Nephi 13:29, which mentions the stumbling of the Gentiles. Then you state in the 7th paragraph:

    The corrupt Bible is the stumbling block.

    Now, G.azelem, you want me to take you seriously, but already 7 paragraphs in, you have stated a falsehood. The Bible is nowhere mentioned in 1 Nephi 13. You are so locked into your interpretation, that you see it everywhere, despite the text not mentioning it.

    Now go back into 1 Nephi 13 and see what the book Nephi is referring to is named. He names it, but he doesn’t call it the Bible. Go and see. Once you understand that that book is not the Bible, but bears a different title, then your whole interpretation falls to pieces.

    And this is what I’m talking about, when I say minds go dark, so dark that they don’t even know they are in darkness and apostasy, so that even logic goes out the window. The rest of this post has no foundation unless that book you think is the Bible is really the Bible. But the text doesn’t say that it’s the Bible. Yet your mind sees it written everywhere. Thus, the premise that 1 Nephi speaks of the Bible is a fiction, a fantasy, a hallucination conjured up by a darkened mind that so badly wants something that is false to be true. Yet it is still a false narrative.

    So, if you are capable of learning truth and being corrected, go and look and come back and answer me this question: What is the name Nephi gives of the book he is describing in this chapter? This is not a hard question to answer. A little child can read that chapter and give the correct answer. But then, a little child’s mind is not dark.


  3. Wow Anarchist,

    We don’t need to behave like enemies do we?

    We are both in a search for light and truth , are we not?

    The Book is the Book of the Lamb of God.

    That is the uncorrupted “Bible”

    I believe it is a translation of the brass plates, with an uncorrupted/complete New Testament.


  4. G.azelem,

    The Book is the Book of the Lamb of God.

    That is the uncorrupted “Bible”

    I believe it is a translation of the brass plates, with an uncorrupted/complete New Testament.

    Excellent. Okay, regardless of what you believe it is, we can agree that it is not the Bible. The record Nephi names in 2 Nephi 29 is called the Bible. That record we can identify. But the book mentioned in 1 Nephi 13 is called the Book of the Lamb of God. Which is still an as yet unidentified record.

    So, take that premise and go with it. Even if you take what you believe it is (the plates of brass), when you put that in, it messes up your timeline. In other words, let’s say that it’s the plates of brass (which it’s not), but let’s say it is, anyway. The plates of brass haven’t come forth, yet. So, 1 Nephi 13 cannot apply to our time. It is a still future prophecy.

    I don’t have time right now, but tomorrow I’ll come back and show you why that must be. But in the meantime, just plug in the plates of brass to that chapter and see what you come up with. I’ll return tomorrow.


  5. G.azelem,

    As for the rejection of the church I don’t think we will ever see eye to eye until new scripture comes forth.

    Well…we’ll just have to see about that. I’m going to walk you through this publicly, here on this post, not privately by email.

    From 1 Nephi 13:

    Nephi sees the formation of a great and abominable church among the Gentiles. (Vs. 4.) There are also other, less abominable churches. (Vs. 5) “Behold the formation of a church which is most abominable above all other churches…” Saints of God are also on the scene. (Vs. 5.) Nephi defines the saints of God as the church of the Lamb. (Vs. 12 of 1 Nephi 14.) “…I beheld that the church of the Lamb, who were the saints of God…”

    Thus, saints of God = church of the Lamb (which I’ll call the church of God, for now.)

    Again, Nephi sees the formation of the Great and Abominable Church, but he doesn’t see the formation of the less abominable churches, nor the formation of the church of God. In this vision, the less abominable churches and the church of God are already formed. Thus, the church of God and the less abominable churches are contemporaneous. While these churches are existent on the earth, Nephi sees another, bigger and badder church form, even the great and abominable church.

    At this point there are three church groupings which are contemporaneous: the church of God, less abominable churches, and a newly formed gigantic super abominable church.

    After forming, the great and abominable church starts to torture, kill and put into captivity the church of God.

    Now, here’s the timeline so far, as given by Nephi:

    1) There is an already formed church of God, and there are already formed less abominable churches.
    2) A great and abominable church forms.
    3) This great and abominable church starts to kill, torture and put the church of God into shackles.

    Nephi also gives a description of the great and abominable church:

    And I also saw gold, and silver, and silks, and scarlets, and fine-twined linen, and all manner of precious clothing; and I saw many harlots. And the angel spake unto me, saying: Behold the gold, and the silver, and the silks, and the scarlets, and the fine-twined linen, and the precious clothing, and the harlots, are the desires of this great and abominable church. (1 Ne. 13:7-8)

    So, this church is a church of great wealth, fine clothing and many harlots, all on display.

    Later on in the same chapter, Nephi sees a book (vs. 20) and learns that it is a record like the plates of brass except that it doesn’t contain as many writings as the plates of brass do (vs.23.) He sees it proceed “out of the mouth of a Jew” (vs. 23 and 24) and so he sees it in its pristine condition, before it has been tampered with. He sees this record go forth in purity, and he sees the Great and Abominable church form after the record has gone forth in purity. In verse 28 Nephi names the record he sees in vision, “the book of the Lamb of God.”

    After the Great and Abominable church forms, it takes away many precious and plain parts from it and then sends it to all the Gentile nations. (Vs. 26-29.) After it is sent to the nations, many of the Gentiles stumble. (Vs. 29.) So the Lord then brings forth other records that restore the plain and precious parts of the book of the Lamb of God. (Vs. 39-40.)

    Our updated timeline:

    1) There is an already formed church of God, and there are already formed less abominable churches. Also, the book of the Lamb of God goes forth in purity.
    2) A great and abominable church forms. It is a church of great wealth, fine clothing and many harlots, all on display.
    3) This great and abominable church starts to kill, torture and put the church of God into shackles. It also takes away many plain and precious parts from the book of the Lamb of God and then sends it to all the Gentile nations.
    4) The Lord brings forth more records that restore the plain and precious parts of the book of the Lamb of God.

    From 1 Nephi 14:

    In this later part of the vision, in verse 10, Nephi sees that now there are only two churches, the church of God on the one hand, and the Great and Abominable church on the other hand, so all the members of the lesser abominable churches have now assimilated into one of these two churches. In verse 13 he sees that the great and abominable church starts gathering people together to fight the Lamb of God. In verses 15 and 16 he sees that the nations that pertain to the great and abominable church start warring among themselves. We then learn that the rest of the story will be told by John the Apostle, whose writings will be in the book of the Lamb of God. (Vs. 23.)

    Our updated timeline:

    1) There is an already formed church of God, and there are already formed less abominable churches. Also, the book of the Lamb of God goes forth in purity.
    2) A great and abominable church forms. It is a church of great wealth, fine clothing and many harlots, all on display.
    3) This great and abominable church starts to kill, torture and put the church of God into shackles. It also takes away many plain and precious parts from the book of the Lamb of God and then sends it to all the Gentile nations.
    4) The Lord brings forth more records that restore the plain and precious parts of the book of the Lamb of God.
    5) Now there’s only two churches: the church of God and the great and abominable church.
    6) The great and abominable church starts gathering people together to fight the Lamb of God.
    7)The nations that pertain to the great and abominable church start warring among themselves.
    8) John the Apostle will write the rest of the vision and it will be written in the book of the Lamb of God.

    Now, G.azelem, if you agree with this timeline (and review the chapters yourself to see that it is correct), then I ask you:

    1) In this timeline, when does the Book of Mormon come forth?
    2) In this timeline, where does the supposed “rejection of the church” fit in?
    3) What historical events fit into the above visionary elements?
    4) In this timeline, when does the Great and Marvelous Work begin?
    5) In this timeline, where does Joseph Smith’s restoration work fit in?
    6) Where and what is the great and abominable church?
    7) Lastly, why is there an already formed and continuing to exist church of God from the very start to the very end of chapters 13 and 14 of the vision?

    I look forward to reading your answers.


    1. Hey Anarchist,

      You did a bang-up job presenting your ideas.

      I hope the things I write are as readable as yours. (And I’m not being sarcastic.)

      I wrote this post over a year ago! Since then, I have tried to put 1 Nephi 13 in a future tense… not in a Catholic sense, lol.

      I will read 1 Nephi 13 vigorously and respond.

      Perhaps my mind will be swayed.


      Liked by 1 person

  6. Anarchist,

    I did a vigorous re-read of 1 Nephi 13.

    I thank you for pointing me to it and seeing where I may have erred. I now have a new understanding of that chapter.

    That said, I can’t agree with any of your interpretations. You think I wrest the scriptures in Section 124 to suit my own narrative? Because I feel like you have done the same thing with 1 Nephi 13.

    We are both coming from completely different angles, angles which have taken years of study. We both are seekers of truth. Of course we are on a different viewpoint. We don’t need to prove one another wrong.

    Besides, I don’t take anyone seriously if they believe in polygamy and the masonic endowment.

    However, you have much to offer, and I will answer your questions nonetheless. Though I need to be quick. My girlfriend wants to hang out. Lame excuse, I know.

    As I peruse the questions once more I don’t think I can answer your questions, because I don’t believe your timeline.

    The great and abominable church is the Catholic church of 1 Nephi 13, which was formed after the many false churches that came before it. False churches were sprouting up during the time of Paul.

    The true church was on the earth until around 570 AD.

    That’s when it went into the wilderness.

    It came out of the wilderness in 1831 for a three and a half year period, then went into darkness and obscurity.

    The second watch occurs in Nephi 13:34-37, that’s the three and a half year period. Those Saints only SEEK to bring forth Zion, but fail. However they return in the third watch, which is 1 Nephi 14, the great and marvelous work.

    The great and abominable church increases its dominion and even combines with the LDS church.

    The wheat are gathered out of the LDS church, and then the tares are burned/great and abominable church receives the wrath of God. When the wheat is gathered out, that is when there is only two churches. The rejection happened between verse 37, because the Saints did not establish Zion.

    3rd Nephi 16 and 20 and 21 all clarify this down to a T.

    BTW you seem bothered I use the time sequence of the three watches. What, you don’t believe in it? The JST clearly teaches there will be three watches.

    3rd Nephi 16 and 20 explain the Gentiles reject the fulness of the gospel after having received it.

    They rejected the fulness; God rejected them.

    Right now I still believe the LDS church contains the wheat, the true Saints of God. However, the church itself does not offer the saving ordinances.



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